Wednesday Wondering: Players versus Plays

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Do you remember that old line when James Coley infamously took over as OC at UGA? I remember it, too, and it was something to be forgettable once the result was played out in the field.

Enter the firing of Harbaugh in Baltimore, alongside rumors that players weren’t happy with Monken’s playcalling…and now Dawg Twitter is blowing up with pleas for Monken to return…

So for today’s Wondering…was Monken that great of an OC, or did he just have a top flight cast of characters to play with?

Also, if we had to pay top dollar for an assistant to return to Athens, who would it be? Boom? The Pitt Boss? Or Monken?

Discuss.

78 thoughts on “Wednesday Wondering: Players versus Plays”

  1. Ladd, Bowers & Cook are doing nothing in the NFL without Monken telling them exactly what to do!

    Meanwhile, Bobo has dozens of guys better than those three and can’t score any points!!

    I think we should throw as much money as we have at the HC of the Dallas Cowboys and make him say no 4 times!!

    • Yeah, I just watched a summary of Bowers’ career so far covering UGA and the Raiders and I hadn’t fully appreciated just how special and rare he was. The video had a clip of Monken talking about how easy it was to get the ball to Bowers.

      I think I’d rather have Boom calling the defense (I know it’s not going to happen).

      • Also, it’s incredible to think we had a defense at the same time that had Jalen Carter backing up Jordan Davis, with Nakobe Dean and Nolan Smith as line backers.

        I’m not sure anyone will see a team as talented over a 2 year stretch as the 2021-2022 Dawgs.

  2. That is a tough choice for me between Boom and the Pit Boss. Monken was good, but he did have the best rosters in the history of the program to work with both to score points and on defense as a safety net.

    Tackling seems better when Boom is around, but the Pit Boss sure can recruit OL talent. I think I lean Pit Boss.

    • If Monken wanted to come back to Athens, I’d take him. No ifs, ands or buts. Pay him whatever necessary. Limit his recruiting requirements. Retire Bobo.
      Now, let’s talk about the 800 pound gorilla — Donte!

      • Sorry Sanford. Didnt mean to reply to you. Was meant as an individual comment.

  3. It’s the Jimmy’s and Joe’s AND the X’s and O’s. Monken was and is a great offensive coordinator. More often than not, he was able to scheme our TE’s and receivers open against even the best defenses. He coached a walk-on QB into a Heisman finalist, and fed Bowers enough touches to earn him the Mackey award. Last week against Ole Miss we didn’t have a receiver open all night, and our two extremely talented TE’s were MIA. Our guys had to make exceptional plays to move the ball just a few yards, and our QB almost got killed in the process. Just my two cents.

    • Bowers didn’t run himself open heh?

      He was “schemed” open.

      Funny how many times I saw Randy Moss “schemed” open. But all this time I just thought he was just really really fast. Faster than whoever was covering him.

      Learn something new every day…

      Btw: who was it that “schemed” Brock open down at Auburn in 2023 when he saved us?

      Interesting how Brock did incredible things with Monken, Bobo, 2 different Raiders coaches… but Oscar and Luckie never outran an entire SEC defense, ever….

      Weird.

        • Do you instinctively resort to personal attacks rather than substance or would a substantive approach exceed your capacities?

      • As we all know 2020 sucked, in that 4 year stretch, UGA football had the best of all worlds, won a couple we should have lost, had a defense that helped the offense score, which helped the defense rush 4 and cover plus special teams play that led to field position/scores, schemed plays let players make plays, there were some close games and there existed some games that were pure overwhelming blow outs…the overall UGA football “process” worked out for everybody, you, me, UGA trophy case, Dawgnation, college football, UGA, Boom, Monken, and the “Pitboss”, the world that is UGA football…GO DAWGS!!

      • You are absolutely incapable of conversing on here without snark and sarcasm. You have your opinion and I have mine. I would say good day but I do not wish you one Derek.

        • How would you prefer me to point out that Bowers is an awesome fucking player and calling his number takes no more genius than handing it to 34 as many times as you can?

          What sort of tone do you ladies require? I’d hate to ruin the luncheon for everyone later because you arrive in a tiff.

          Open to suggestions.

          • One simple suggestion for you.. its okay for people to disagree, and you shouldn’t take it so personally when people do not agree with you. A simple, “agree to disagree” seems to never be the choice, always snark and sarcasm. Its disrespectful to treat people that way, so don’t be surprised when they respond with “personal attacks”, as you say.

          • Simple to say, during that specified time UGA football had all around badass, Mr. Darnell Washington,”The Displacer” plus all around unicorn, Mr. Brock Bowers, when needed “The Displacer” would act like an extended O-Lineman, Bowers would also chip, block, receive and or jet sweep, today, Delp and Luckie are o-linemen more times than pass catchers, at times reflecting on UGA football o-line short comings or even worse, offensive short comings…GO DAWGS!!

        • He seems to always be the instigator, usually beginning with the aforementioned snark and (too on the nose) sarcasm. Its a shame, because when he’s not showing his rear end, he actually makes some good, knowledgeable points regarding our Dawgs. I could seriously do without the petty and egotistical behavior, but to each their own.

          • I don’t post shit like George Haffner was smart to give it to Herschel 40 times a game and if they’d only do that with Frazier!!

            If I did, I would deserve what I get.

            The implication of the post I responded to was that Delp and Luckie are just Bowers in waiting. But BOBO!! You know, a TE is a TE is a TE.

            They ain’t and both Luckie and Delp would freely tell you so.

            I’m sorry people want to blurt out ridiculous things here and remain cocooned in a protective shield from an opposing comment that might wound their delicate fees fees, but that just ain’t the real world. I don’t owe anyone that.

            Don’t hurt my brain with really bad takes. If you hurt my brain there will be an equal and opposite reaction.

            Its simple physics. Be advised. Objects fall from above. Act accordingly. Or not.

            After all, I’m not the one trying to tell to people what’s permissible/acceptable commentary. Nor am I whining.

    • Whether it’s Bobo, Gunner, or both, we have to find a way to push the ball down the field. I don’t know if this crew can. Love Gunner, but he’s no Bennett. And Bobo is certainly no Monken. I say again, though, it doesn’t matter. Consistency!! We are all mulling over coaching, elite talent, and the transfer portal, and Kirby is just thinking when he gets D Bobo back, we’ll be able to run over everyone again. 🤣

      Are we the 90s Braves? Built to weather a long, brutal season, but missing the mojo needed to go on a playoff run?

      • You need fast guys who can separate and go catch it. If Taylor catches that ball vs Bama, stays healty and gains confidence, we’re in a different place today. But he not only blew it, he got hurt.

        We didn’t really have any other speed guys. Which is why I was nervous about getting this team across the finish line. If someone could control our running game and post a number, we were going to be in a fight.

        Scaring safeties is huge in football, but if you don’t have players who scare anyone….

        • Gee, I wonder why Bobo can’t get good players with his prolific offense.

          • That’s one way to call Branch stupid. Why not be more direct? How dumb is the best player (qb btw) in the 2028 class who has committed to georgia?

            How smart is Curtis to pick Vandy over Georgia?

            Especially relative to Humphries who probably spends all day drooling on himself.

    • Disagree on “we didn’t have a receiver open all night”. Yes we did, our QB wouldn’t pull the trigger. There were numerous offensive opportunities in that game and, I love him, but, GS14 didn’t make the plays… in some cases didn’t even attempt to.

  4. Pit Boss is basically retired and out of the game. Boom moved on to (literally) greener pastures at the 40 acres. I give high marks to Monken for his play calling but those offenses had a fair number of players who played in the league. As to player evals? Mixed bag. This is the same guy who wanted Jamie Newman, D’Wan Mathis and JT Daniels before “settling” on Stetson. I think Monken liked his time in Athens, but at heart he’s a pro coach.

    • Both very astute (and accurate, IMO) observations – The Band is not getting back together! RIP Levon….

    • I think Monken never cared for the recruiting aspects of it, and it’s only gotten worse since he left with NIL and unlimited portaling.

  5. Kirby himself has said jimmies and joes beat x and o’s.

    I would prefer one coach from offense the Pit Boss and coach Boom to fix the defense if we’re playing what if.

    • The problem with that is that everyone has jimmies and joes now, so we need to get better at the scheming. Our days of simply outmanning other teams every game are over.

      • No doubt, but I don’t think we need get it in our minds that suddenly everything is becoming play calling.

        Recruiting, culture, program building will still be the biggest factors. Plus coaching talent is going to take a hit as those who have it in spades are going to Sundays.

        Just a better life there right now.

        I would say mean, motivated, better conditioned jimmies and joes will be the primary factor with X’s and O’s making a difference when those things equal out.

        One big thing we never want to seem to speak on is how rare it is that we lose to a lesser qb.

        If we could raise that position up a little bit to be at the same level as the balance of jimmies and joes who have gone through the program, we’d be a lot harder to beat.

        • You’re absolutely right. We certainly win a lot because of the culture and work ethic of this team. But when the talent differences are becoming thinner and thinner, then scheme becomes more important. Just look at the adjustments our D coaches made half way through the season. Sure, the players got better, but we also shifted to more man-to-man and less zone. We played up rather than giving all the cushion that let opposing WRs run seemingly uncovered.

          • Sure, but are one of the teams playing later this week using superior “schemes?”

            I do see some better qb/wr/rb talent out there.

            I don’t think Mario Cristobal has found a brain. And Dan Lanning went for it enough in the last game for me to question whether his IQ is above room temperature.

          • I’m not sure how to reply to your last post, Derek. I guess WordPress has a limit on responses. Regardless, I would argue that Ole Miss and Indiana actually have better offensive schemes than we do. I like Bobo and I think he’s one of the better OCs in the country, and we did have a very good offense. But their offenses are more dynamic and adaptive, in my opinion.

          • If you’re right LSU will be winning lots of titles.

            Fortunately, you’re not.

  6. I like Monken. I think he’s good. I think he also benefited from the players he had while here. Do I think Monken is a better OC than Bobo? Yeah. Do I think Bobo is a good OC? Yeah.

    As for who I would like to have back, in a perfect world it’s Pittman but that aint happening and I also think Searles is a good line coach. Pittman is just the best.

    Also, Radi Nabulsi said some the other day about Boom that was interesting. I don’t remember his exact wording but the idea was Boom didn’t just take time off to go watch his kid play. Apparently there was a little more to it. He didn’t get specific but he said that much.

    • I didn’t see the article by Radi and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express (so I don’t know shit), but it wouldn’t surprise me at all for there to be a little friction between two alphas like Kirby and Boom. It’s easy to be friends from a distance, but it’s much harder when Kirby is riding your ass every day.

      • Radi said it in a live the other day. He said just enough to get the point across that all was not well there. It was mighty weird to me that Boom left when he did and all the sudden wants the job at Texas. Radi prefaced it with, “Not everybody can coach under Kirby. There have been coaches who have said things like, ‘I can’t work for that son of a bitch.’”

  7. If a guy can scheme up 49-3 and 65-7, I’ll take that guy. I do believe it’s players over plays, but Monken seemed to know exactly what button to press at the right time.

    Still, it’s amazing how good the offenses in 21-23 were when you had a generational talent on the field that teams had to be aware of on almost every play. When 19 got hurt, it changed everything.

    • True, but how good would Bowers be on this team? We all lauded the lack of downfield passing game back in the first game of the season. Last week, we didn’t have the ability to push the ball down the field. Not sure how Bowers or Ladd would help much unless it’s blocking.

      • The presence of Bowers in the middle of the field opened up things for McConkey, Rosemy-Jacksaint, and AD Mitchell.

        All I’m saying is a talent like him raises the game of everyone around him.

        Why did we not push the ball down the field? QB ability or confidence? Lack of separation of our receivers? Lack of time to allow the play to develop? I don’t know. I’m just asking the question.

      • Maybe he would’ve had 4 TDs against Ole Miss in the first game, instead of the 3 that Luckie had, who knows….

        • Herschel Walker in 3 games vs Clemson:

          53 carries 268 yards 5.1 yards per carry.

          Torin Kirtsey vs. Clemson in one game:

          38 carries 195 yards and 5.1 per carry.

          Essentially they’re interchangeable.

          The constant?

          Ray Goff’s coaching.

    • Like going empty with Stet on 3rd and 12 vs Bama and earning the pick six we all deserved?

      He’s good. Not perfect. No one is. He also had lots to work with.

      I remember making jokes about why we never went empty with Stet in 2021.

      When I saw us line up in empty with that down and distance I thought…oh fuck…then suddenly a bama db is running straight at me with the ball…

      It will be interesting to see where Todd lands. I know he is interviewing in Cleveland for the HC job.

      Harbaugh will likely land somewhere. If Todd doesn’t get a HC job and John brings him with, that would be a helluva endorsement. The rumors are that the Ravens fired Harbaugh because he wouldn’t fire Monken…. That’s something.

      • Every OC makes calls he wishes he could have back … like running a bootleg with a Heisman front runner at tailback right behind you on 1st and goal after an almost pick 6.

        • Or running a blind lateral reverse with your back against the goal line.

          Amazing what we can do vs bama when we don’t turn it over inside our own 10 ain’t it?

          • Wasn’t that Bobo who made that call?

            I’m not a Bobo hater. I do think Monken seemed to have a better feel for the game generally than Mike seems to at this point. That may be my lyin’ eyes (or a confirmation bias).

            Bobo was a Broyles finalist (as the only OC) for a reason (and not because the Broyles committee wanted to troll the BDS segment of the Georgia fan base).

  8. Boom. Our ability to get opposing players to the ground has declined since his step back and subsequent departure. No more 1st qtr deficits when we make those tackles.

    I wanted to say Pit Boss and I love him.
    Monken better be sending half to Lil Stet (whom he hated) because he was straight up made by the Blackshear Ball Slainger.

  9. Shortly after Bobo was announced as OC, he gave an interview where he parroted the “players, not play” line and I shuddered because I remembered when Coley had said that same thing.

    That said, I think he’s done a decent job of combining players AND plays. Last year, the constant dropped passes and anemic running game were challenges. This year we improved dramatically in both those categories, but a (tough-as-nails) 1st year starting QB was the limiting factor.

    Of the coaches you listed, I’d probably go Pittman, Monken, and Muschamp in order of preference. A dominant o-line will make any offensive system look better, Monken seemed to always scheme guys open (great talent helps), and Muschamp seemed to give our defense a boost but it’s unclear (to me) how much credit he deserves.

  10. I vote Monken even though it’ll never happen.

    As an OC I trust that Monken probably rode his staff pretty hard, looking at the OL coach specifically and riding his ass on the regular.

    It’s about running a staff and getting the whole offense to operate, which has nothing to do with game day stuff. I haven’t seen evidence of everything coming together with any consistency over the past 3 seasons.

    I don’t know if it’s bobo or not, but it’s what I see, which ain’t worth a whole lot, just an opinion.

    • I keep turning in games and hearing announcers tell me how our opponent has started the same five offensive lineman in every game.

      That would be nice.

      • Obviously injuries played a part in that this year, but I wonder if the shifting o-line has been a constant under Searels. I remember back during the Richt years we’d be halfway through the season with CMR still talking about “finding our best starting 5” on the o-line, like that’s something we couldn’t have figured out during spring practice, fall camp, or at least the first couple of games.

        • I don’t think we’re shifting starting lineups except to accommodate injuries.

          I do think they want at least 8 game ready and if 6 through whatever earn it, they’ll get meaningful snaps.

          But having the same 5 OL start is a huge advantage and we haven’t been able to get that.

          I don’t know how you blame Searles for that. He did recruit two pretty good freshman who were forced to play. Win the sec with a back up center. #3 seed. Not bad. Doesn’t he get any credit for that?

    • I think you hit the nail on the head.

      For whatever reason, since Monken left there is always a piece that is out of sync. I do thinnk that part of his success was the full supporting cast. He had Bobo to focus on QB and help gameplan. He had Buster Fulkner chipping in along with the Pit Boss, Todd Hartley, B Mac and Dell McGee. That is a crazy strong bunch to help Monken. With the exception of Hartley, we have stepped back on all of those spots.

      I do think Monken had a better feel for in-game adjustments to attack opposing teams’ gameplans or weaknesses, which is my biggest gripe about Bobo. But the evidence seems to be that Monken was a better manager of the offensive staff and had a better staff to manage.

  12. Yall can hate on Derek all you want and me and him have butted heads plenty over the years but he’s just right about this.

    People have short memories. There were folks calling for Monken to be fired in ‘20. If you look back through GTP around that time you might be surprised at the comments. Remember starting Dwan Mathis against Arkansas? Monken didn’t set the world on fire that season.

    The Bobo thing is never going to go away. It doesn’t matter what happens. But the fact is, Kirby thinks he’s a good OC. I guess people trust Kirby on everything except that one thing. Oh and Kirby has fired friends before. That’s another narrative that needs to stop is that he’s too loyal to people he likes.

    • “The Bobo thing is never going to go away.”

      I thought that might be a reason that he wasn’t going to elevate Mike … is it worth the headache that will inevitably come? My understanding is that Monken recommended Bobo replace him.

    • Facts are stubborn things…

      Whether there is a difference between Monken and Bobo in competence and ability or not, its not likely to be outcome determinative.

      Anyone who thinks Kirby is about anything except winning football games is out of their minds.

      I don’t agree with every call or in game decision Kirby or Bobo have made. I have criticized both on those more than once. In fact, Ive called one of Kirby’s in game decisions the dumbest thing I have ever seen in a big game.

      On big picture items, I just trust Kirby to make those program defining decisions. If he thinks Bobo is the guy and he’s said that over and over, I do not feel I am in any position to second guess that.

      And I really don’t understand anyone expressing that they have superior knowledge/wisdom on the subject of OC. I find it silly and tedious under the circumstances.

      Bobo’s two tenures as OC have not been perfect but it would be hard not to note that his offenses have been really good with really good players and never too bad even in their absence.

      We have had far worse luck with DC’s in that regard over the years than with Bobo. In fact, if you were to ask:

      Who has been UGA’s most successful coordinator, with more than 5 years of service, since Erk, who would it be?

      How deep would that pool even be? It may leave us with 1 candidate.

  13. Monken ain’t coming back. Bobo ain’t going anywhere nor is Schumann. Would love Pittboss in a QC or Analyst role but doubt it. I really don’t see many changes in the off-season coming unless assistants start getting poached by other programs.

  14. Monken won 2 nattys with a 5’9” walk-on QB!! No question in my mind he was head and shoulders better than any other OC in cfb. If Kirby hasn’t already called him, he’s a fool.

    • I think Stet probably deserves some of the credit there.

      I wouldn’t tell him that he owes it all to Monken.

      • As much as I like SBIV, his accomplishments before Monken or after Monken aren’t much to write home about.

        I believe SBIV DOES owe that success to Monken – far more than any other individual on those 2 natty winning teams.

        The fact we won 2 natty’s in the 3 years Monken was OC, and haven’t really come close to the championship since he left, speaks volumes about his contributions.

        Mark my words, we get Monken back and the chances we win it all again increase dramatically. If he lands at another sec school, say bama, it’s going to make our path back to a natty far harder.

        • Stets accomplishments through a lot of his time WITH Monken were quite poor too. That gets forgotten for some reason.

          As does that defense. The defense in 2021 kept us in that game in Indy. Not Todd and not Stet.

          Then there’s 2022…

          Here is the thing that no coach can give a player:

          Balls.

          There are thousands of Stetson Bennett playing qb in HS across this country. Small gritty competitive guys with average foot speed and arm strength.

          You send Jalen Carter after all but 1 and they run screaming and quit.

          Stet is one of one. No other walk on qb will win back to back natties, ever. Coaches and coordinators have and will continue to do that with immense talent at qb. Not with little walk on qbs.

          You do reality a disservice to minimize what we all saw Stetson do.

          Monken didn’t win shit with Lamar Jackson, Heisman winner and NFL MVP.

          And he had Derrick Henry.

  15. Coaches aren’t needed, just great players. Players will recruit themselves to UGA, just leave a “Please enter here” sign at B-M. Great players don’t need guidance on technique, play study, nutrition and fitness, mental discipline and skill training. They don’t need plays and formations called or guidance on what the opposition is doing. Hell, Monken was sitting back sipping bourbon and smoking a cigar while Stet and Co. did their thing. Poor Kirby, Mike and Glenn…don’t have the great players…not their fault…and they just keep getting in the way by trying to help. Fire the whole staff and use the money for NIL. Kirby’s salary alone will get us the dream team. It’s the Jimmies & Joes y’all!

    Am I doing this right?

    • If you’re trying to compete in the area smartassery, I would say “epic fail.”

      If you’re trying to say that the players on the field aren’t the ones who primarily win and lose football games, please write a letter to the NFL Hall of Fame and tell them to shutter it.

      Ed Ogeron won a natty.

      Yeah, that Ed Ogeron.

      I suggest someone tie a clue to your ass, pat you on the back and wish you good luck hunting.

      (That’s how you do smartassery. Work on it!)

  17. Run the ball. Stop the run. That is still how you win championship games. The difference in the rushing attack between Indiana and Alabama? 3 yards per carry. Miami vs. Ohio State? 2.26 yards per carry. Ole Miss vs UGA? .56 yards per carry. Which game was the closest? (yes Oregon and TT is an outlier but turnovers do matter.)

    So I would LOVE Pittman back — but I would take a OL coach that coaches physicality, rhythm AND finishing plays. You can argue OCs and DCs all day but our Achilles heal remains CSS.

  18. I would choose Monken. His pre-snap motion and WR route tree appeared more developed than the scheme Kirby was using with Chaney and Coley. There’s a reason Bobo still uses a lot of the same plays. Mike is a good OC, but I just think Monken is a little better. That being said, I’d rather have more speed and length at WR and a QB with more confidence and consistency, but I’ve always been a Jimmies and Joes guy.

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