I guess they have fixed all of Louisiana’s problems now.
There are a couple of things that I cannot understand about the proponents of this sort of nonsense. One, what exactly is supposed to be furthered here, other than trying to condition people to accept more and more state-sponsored religion? Is there just a complete lack of any historical understanding that our Founders wanted government and religion as far apart as possible? Is there zero appreciation of what we fled Europe to get away from? Do none of these people know just how many people were killed fighting over whose religion would or would not rule in the countries we left in order to get away from that? Is state-sponsored religion and the lack of separation between religion and state working out well for the people of say, Tehran? Has that sort of thing worked out well anywhere?
Two, this whole idea that the Ten Commandments is some historical foundation for our criminal laws is nonsense and I can prove it. Let’s take them one at a time:
- Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Not a law. Not a crime. Explicitly a religious directive and only a religious directive
- Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
Ditto. Two down.
- Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
Ditto. Only 7 left.
- Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
This is getting repetitive.
- Honour thy father and thy mother.
5 to go.
- Thou shalt not kill.
Finally, we have one of the two for which a violation could find its way inside of an American courtroom. However, this was not the first time it occurred to anyone that murder is bad, wrong or punishable. Pretty sure that in the most Communistic, anti-religious states, you can’t kill people with impunity. Unless you’re running the joint, of course. (Who knows? Perhaps the Supreme Court will extend the right of Kings to U.S. Presidents sometime this week and the executive can kill any of us and be immune from consequence. Interesting times…) Moreover, kingdoms, empires, states, etc… had codified, written laws prohibiting murder that at least 1,000 years older than the estimated time of Moses receipt of these. This Commandment is not about what your king will do to you if you kill. Its all about the afterlife. In other words, if you are OJ, you can’t claim Double Jeopardy at the pearly gates. You have a different set of rules at that point and so again, the Commandments are all about religion and nothing more.
- Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Some states still have laws prohibiting this activity on the books, but none prosecute it, ever.
- Thou shalt not steal.
Same as #6.
- Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
While it may overlap with perjury, #9 is far more broad than that. We don’t prosecute lying in America.
- Thou shalt not covet.
And now the tally is in: 8 of 10 are overtly religious. 10 of 10 are by any rationale measure religious unless you can conceive of any organized society that would not prohibit murder and theft OR you can establish that there were no organized societies prior to Moses interacting with the burning bush. A tough argument to make given that Moses had recently fled a nation having the tallest man-made structures on the planet until the Eiffel Tower went up in 1889. Moreover, if everyone strictly adhered to #10, this country would collapse overnight. Fortunately, we all know that the only thing the proponents of this silliness believe in is voter naïveté. It is the transparent insincerity of this faux Christianity that ensures us that our capitalistic economy, driven by a society which covets nearly every moment of every day, will survive unscathed, but what is hidden? What are these people really after? Other than political power?
Discuss.
If there is one thing modern America doesn’t have to worry about its people being too religious.
It often seems that anti-religion is a pretty zealous religion itself.
While both true and unfortunate, its this sort of thing that drives the hostility. I sometimes am led to believe that is the entire point.
Find a dividing line. Exploit it. Force people to make a choice. Take advantage of the division you created. Rinse and repeat.
Should the 10 Commandments be adopted to post on the walls of every classroom by legislative action? Nope.
Should it be ok for an individual teacher to display them voluntarily in his/her classroom and not be instructed to remove it? Not sure.
How about we get back to teaching mathematics, hard science, English, personal finance, vocational training, balanced US/world history, and technology in our K-12 schools?
On the question about have certain areas solved their school problems, I guess the students at places like Carrollton, Lowndes County, Colquitt County, and others all have 4.0+ GPAs and 1500+ SAT scores since they have full-size indoor practice facilities and football facilities that would make some Group of 5 programs jealous.
Forgot to throw civics in there along with US history.
They have never stopped teaching those. That is another of those lies created to divide us.
That may be true but we aren’t seeing the results.
All of that has gone the way of the Dodo under the philosophy of “equity” as it pertains to college entry. It’s all geared to point young people towards compulsory college attendance, increasing student participation in AP coursework or dual enrollment instead of following a path of financial independence by earning industry credentials or certifications in VoTech pathways. Financial literacy is making its way into schools, but it’ll be interesting to see if it actually points kids towards independence or towards getting neck deep in debt.
Some students aren’t interested in college at all. Some want to go the military route directly from school and then decide whether college or career is best for them.
Our schools need to prepare students for those tracks as well. Regardless of destination, everyone needs basic math, reading, and writing skills and be prepared to be a good citizen (civics/history).
I’m almost certain that the Ten Commandments or some religious quote can be found in several government buildings in DC and across the nation. Is it because of our beliefs or where our laws came from?
I doubt that the foundation of the US tax code is holy.
Ceremonial deism isn’t religious.
There is some argument that the Ten Commandments have some historical significance in civil law. Its not a very persuasive one as I address.
Derek, your first sentence made me LOL.
Seems to me that Gov. Landy is just keeping the promises he made to his unenlightened halfwit constituents that voted him in. When you’re able to convince the majority of a voting population that the root of your problem is the lack of God in the classroom, it really helps one avoid tackling the real issues. Conservatives are masterclasses at this, and they know that when it ultimately fails as it always does, they can just blame it on the godless liberal agenda.
“Unenlightened halfwit constituents.” I couldn’t tell you if they are enlightened or unenlightened. It seems to be a matter of opinion. In my 72 years on this earth, I believe there is a higher being (God if you will). Now I can’t prove or disprove one way or the other. I guess that’s the reason it’s call Faith.
As a member of the Louisiana voting public, I feel confident in my assertion.
Idem ici.
I think it was Florida that replaced school counselors with priests, so some Satan worshippers applied to be counselors. LOL
For me, this is what the Louisiana law – and much these days – is about:
Rupert Murdoch advising a president with absolute immunity
yea you nailed it bud….
This is a dumb law and will be eventually found to be unconstitutional. That said, this is not the worst thing being mandated to be taught/discussed/displayed in some of our nation’s schools. California, you have the floor.
Not sure harmlessness is a defense here, but you’re not wrong. That is unless it’s designed to get the elephant’s trunk under the circus tent to create some real mischief later. Not sure what the current court will do with this one. The fifth circuit may well give it a stamp of approval. Are there 4 votes to get cert review? Not entirely clear. The supremes may wait for a circuit split and sit on their hands until then. And that might not happen. The circuits unlikely to uphold a such a law don’t have states within them likely to pass one. The 11th, 10th and 5th do and they may all be fine with it. After all the 11th upheld an Alabama law prohibiting the sale of dildos within its borders.
Besides there is nothing like an issue you can demagogue to zealots now that the urgency to repeal Roe has passed. You don’t want the Bible beaters focused on economic issues when their very soul is in peril from the commies over at the aclu!
The “zealots” all seem to be out in force regarding Israel/Gaza for the time being.I don’t remember seeing a college campus shut down during finals recently over the 10 commandments. Maybe that warrants further discussion.
Little, if any, of the domestic debate over the IDF’s reaction to 10/7/23 has anything to do with religious tenets one way or the other. To the extent religion gets drug into it, its a purposeful distraction. You don’t have to want to pilgrimage to Mecca or be an antisemite to be against the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians. There are plenty of Jewish Americans and Israelis who would like the leadership there to handle things differently and/or for Netanyahu to step down. Likewise, the campus protesters are unlikely to be found as regular attendees at the local mosque. At the end of the day, I am fairly confident that there are better people on both sides of our domestic Israel/Gaza protests than were present in Charlottesville or in the Capital 3 and a half years ago. Ymmv.
Better people? Wow. So blinded. So ignorant.
Show me the videos of these protesters beating helpless and screaming police officers and/or being their populated by long-term, fervent white supremacists and/or one of them ramming a speeding car into a crowd of people and I will reconsider my position. The campus protesters may be naive and stupid, but there are far worse sins.
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God in the public-school classroom is obviously the antidote for Louisiana’s problems.
Ouch.
Derek, well thought out, well constructed talking point. Kudos!
First, let’s do hypocrisy. The “religious” rights’ standard bearer is a heretic that treats the ten commandments like a bucket list. We await the Supreme Court’s decision as to whether or not murder on 5th Avenue will bear no consequence. There is ample evidence that he has crossed off the other nine on the list. How do “Christians” adopt him as their leader, allow him to imprint his values on their children and rationalize away all of his crimes, God and man’s?
Now, let’s do morality. While it’s true that the empathy gene, that natural part of us that recognizes the truth of all major religions to “do unto others” and “love thy neighbor” has been bred out of today’s Republican party, do we need a set of “rules” posted everywhere there is a flat surface to remind us to behave? Considering that the first 4 rules are self-promotion and were put at the top to impress on the populace that “worship” was the primary take away from the rules, how does murder drop to number 6? Religion does not equate to morality.
Lastly, and most importantly, power (subset money). What more “in your face” example of power is there than to have your morality code mandated to be displayed at every public place? Why do the acolytes rage about “indoctrinating” the children when the realities of the human condition are mentioned in school? Isn’t enforcing a belief system with no physical proof more in the category of indoctrination? Do we really want an American Taliban?
It’s about butts in the seats, folks, never lose sight of that.
*Golf clap*
Zealots gonna Zealot. OTOH, I guess if you’re as far down in the education game as Louisiana? Fuck it. Throw the Hail Mary…
The founding fathers did not want religion and government as far away as possible. They wanted to encourage freedom of religion. They did not want government to dictate a religion. The ten commandment law is stupid. Not allowing a prayer at Georgia football games is stupid. Unfortunately stupid is prevalent in the USA and will become more prevalent.
I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.
James Madison
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
Thomas Jefferson
The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.
James Madison
The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and in-grafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man.
Thomas Jefferson
Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise…. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
James Madison
Erecting the ‘wall of separation between church and state’… is absolutely essential in a free society.
Thomas Jefferson
We are teaching the world the great truth that Governments do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion Flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Government.
James Madison
To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical; . . . even the forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own religious persuasion, is depriving him of the comfortable liberty of giving his contributions to the particular pastor whose morals he would make his pattern.
Thomas Jefferson
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
Thomas Jefferson
I am for freedom of religion, and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendency of one sect over another.
Thomas Jefferson
Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?
James Madison
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
Thomas Jefferson
The impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time.
Thomas Jefferson
Because we hold it for ‘a fundamental and undeniable truth’, that religion or ‘the duty which we owe to our Creator’ and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence.
James Madison
*wipes a tear from his eye*
Brilliant.
Wow, just wow! And you brought the founding fathers with you. Well done!
I rarely read Playpen posts, and have never commented in one before.
Brilliant work here, Derek.
Lighten up…It’s an election year…Politicians are playing to their base…nobody in these hellhole liberal run Cities (like Atlanta), DC and New York are threatening to post a 10 point Civilization Restoration Plan… liberals have had your way with the the Senate, the Presidency, Schools Systems, Elections, Censorship and the Justice Department and look how things are now… for God’s sake STFU!!! All of your condemnation privliges have been suspended until further notice.
I can hear the heads exploding from down here at Disney World…